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Which 3M product?

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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2009 at 10:45am
the cheaper it is the more work you have to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KRoundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2011 at 7:22pm
Can I use an orbital polisher/buffer for this type of work? I have a Craftsman 10" that use for polish/wax/buff on my cars. Or so I need to get a different tool for this gel coat work? What is the difference?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MartyMabe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2011 at 8:34pm
That's OK! You'll just have bigger forearms for your wife to hold onto after you get done with all that buffin'!

The gel-coat is very forgiving--not like car paint!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2011 at 8:57pm
Kevin,
The Crapsman orbital will probably not do the job. If you are planning on doing allot of compounding out wet sanding scratches, you'll need a true buffer. That orbital is best for waxing if that!!! Sorry but I DO NOT care for the brand!!!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KRoundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2011 at 9:52pm
OK. The orbital buffer was a gift and it does a fine job of waxing my cars, but it is a very simple and basic machine. I'll so some tool shopping. The DeWalt 849 still the tool of choice for us home-use guys? Is there anywhere that sells a "package" deal that would have the tool and all these various pads that I'm going to need? I see there are some packages on eBay, but who knows what quality or brand the pads are. Might just pick up a used one from eBay and source the pads from elsewhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-06-2011 at 9:34am
I see that Hutchins makes a lot of DAs. Can anyone tell me which model is the best all around for wet sending boat gel coat finishes? I have done it by hand with a block in the past.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieNorts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2011 at 2:07am
Would you guys recommend this process for a boat that is not heavily oxidised, 1997 model? It has just lost the shine in the high traffic areas, over the back from swim platform into the boat and around the nose hand rails etc..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nevergrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2011 at 6:24am
Originally posted by AussieNorts AussieNorts wrote:

Would you guys recommend this process for a boat that is not heavily oxidised, 1997 model? It has just lost the shine in the high traffic areas, over the back from swim platform into the boat and around the nose hand rails etc..


Mate, by the sounds of it, it just needs a good buff with a variable speed sander/polisher machine. You can get some cutters from your local marine shop. I've recently finished a full gel sand below my gunnel rubber from 320 to 1500 grit paper and finished it off with two types off buffing, an extra cut, then a superfine cut. The brand I used was Ronstan. Available at my local Biasboating store.

Don't be afraid to attack the gelcoat. It's as tough as anything.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-07-2011 at 7:48am
I own 2 Hutchins, anyone that does this stuff professionally owns one, the gel will kick your ass before you kick its....I'll grab the model numbers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2012 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by TRBenj TRBenj wrote:

Chris, heres what I suggest:

wetsand 800, 1000, 1200

3M Super Duty Compound on a 1" pile wool pad, 2x
3M Perfect-It II Compound on a 1.5" pile wool pad, 1x
3M Finesse-It II Finishing Material (this is a polish) on a wool/acrylic blend polishing pad, 2x
Collinites 925 wax, by hand with a microfiber cloth

I get all my 3M stuff and Lake Country pads from Smart Shoppers. They have the best prices that Ive found and carry everything you'll need, save for the wax (available at Napa or ebay).

You definitely need a good rotary polisher for this stuff. With your fleet Id invest in a Dewalt 849 or the Milwaukee equivalent. If you want more info (part numbers, etc), let me know. This process has worked wonders for every boat Ive used it on.


I have several questions for Tim or anyone else about the buffing procedure.
I have been using 3M Marine Rubbing Compound (09004), followed by 3M Marine Color/Gloss Restorer (09089). The rubbing compound works well, but is pretty aggressive and leaves the expected buffing scratches in the gel. The color restorer seems to have very little abrasive in it, and is unable to remove the extremely small scratches from the surface after the rubbing compound. I end up having a very nice glossy surface, but if you examine it very closely you will see the very fine scratches from the compound. It is similar to what you commonly see on a very glossy black car. Since it is a creme colored boat you have to look hard to see them, but they're there.

I am thinking of trying the procedure described above to get a totally glass like finish, but I would like to know which backing pads I need for the described pads. There are several listed on smartshopper.com, but I don't want to buy the wrong ones being that they are nearly $50 each.

BTW, I really don't want to wet sand the gel. It is in very good condition and I don't want to remove the slight "print through" from the woven roving. It shows that the boat was laid up that way and reminds me of a fine carbon fiber bicycle frame. I believe that wet sanding it would remove this feature as it is very subtle. It's presence separates this from a chop gun lay up. It's not that I don't like and sometimes prefer chop gun layups, but this boat is what it is and I want to keep it that way.

Any help is appreciated, my finish skills are not up to the experience some of you have.

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eric lavine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eric lavine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2012 at 1:07pm
trizac on your final wetsand, its the ***************
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2012 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

trizac on your final wetsand, its the ***************

Eric, I haven't been wet standing as mentioned above. I have been using only the puffing & polishing compounds. I am afraid that wet standing or any type of blocking will remove the print through. Do you know if it will?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2012 at 2:17pm
John, Im not familiar with the particular 3M products youre using, but I understand your issue. What you need to make sure happens is that each successive round of finishing (whether it be sanding or buffing) removes the scratches left in the surface by the previous round. For the same reason you cant skip from using 220 grit right to 1000 (without spending a LOT of time at 1000), you need to make gradual steps from most aggressive to least aggressive. While sanding, you can use a tracer to make sure that all previous scratches are gone prior to moving on to the next grit... but with buffing, you need to carefully select the products youre using, as well as the pads that youre applying them with to ensure that happens.

It sounds like you would benefit from using an intermediate step between the 2 youre currently using.

The steps I laid out are a pretty well proven solution- Ive used it on a number of boats with great success, as have a few other friends here (including both Brad and Bruce, who habitually take home best in class at the NE reunions).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2012 at 2:52pm
That is the problem I am having, Eric. I think I will go to your system. Is this the back up pad I should be using with these products?
3M™ Hookit SBS Backup Pad
     
Designed to be used with 3M Compounding Pads PN's 05711, 05719 and all Hookit type foam pads)
Designed to be used with 3M Polishing Pads PN's 05713 and all Hookit foam pads.
Part #
Description
UPS Each
Truck Each
05717      Backup Pad; 1 per case      $ 49.00      $ 47.00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2012 at 3:14pm
That 3M backing plate may work, but the Milwaukee one I have is much cheaper:

Coastal Tool

I might also try the 7.5" wool/poly blend "finishing pad" shown on that same page, as the wool/acrylic Lake Country pad from Smart Shoppers seems to be discontinued. The part numbers on the compounding pads from Smart Shoppers are:

41-325 (Super Duty Compound)
41-725 (intermediate compound)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2013 at 7:02pm
I'm reviving this post to get all prepared to wetsand a gasoline stain on my transom. Looks very soaked into the gel coat and will definitely need some wetsanding.

Silly question, but with wetsanding, do you literally keep the sanding pad wet the whole entire time while using the buffer? Do you mix in soap or other agents? Sound pretty simple with starting with the lower grit number working up to the highest number. I was scoping out cheap sanding/buffing tools are Harbor Freight Tools for $50. All the 3m products look awesome.

What grit paper is ok to buff over the graphics without eating them up?

Ken
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2013 at 7:42pm
ken,
When wet sanding, the paper must be wet all the time. The water flushes the fines (sanding dust) out of the paper. No soap or wetting agent is needed even though some do use it.

The HF may work for awhile but to me is not the best investment. Buy quality and it will last and pay for itself. Here's also am interesting statement from Eric:
Originally posted by eric lavine eric lavine wrote:

the cheaper it is the more work you have to do.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2013 at 7:47pm
Ken, you can't sand over graphics or pinstripe. Sanding should be done by HAND. Yes, keep the paper wet. A little bit of dish soap in your water bucket is ok.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dreaming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-28-2013 at 8:16pm
I have found a spray bottle to be very helpful in wetsanding... a bucket is good too, but i find that I spray (clean) more often when I have a spray bottle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2013 at 9:06am
Thanks for all the advice. Tim, you don't recommend using a buffer on a fuel stain the size of a bowling ball on the transom? Should I start with 400 or 600 on a fuel stain. Do you use some sort of block if doing it by hand? Do I go in circular motions? I just can't wrap by brain around putting a piece of sandpaper to gel coat!! Maybe I'll take a trip to Goshen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2013 at 9:33am
You may want to make the trip, I think you're still struggling to grasp the concepts here, ha. Only block if using an aggressive grit, say 400 and below. You shouldn't need to be that aggressive. Do all sanding by hand. You still need the buffer and pads for all the compounding and polish. That part comes after the sanding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2013 at 9:52am
I'm about as schooled in this as I am with brain surgery. I would be pretty pumped to swing by Lake Benjamin for some help with this. I pay with cases of beer. Let me know when you have spare time between your projects and I'll swing by!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2013 at 10:07am
Do you have all the compounds and polishes? My supply is low. I've got everything else. Maybe get together once the weather turns?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2013 at 11:09am
Tim, I'll purchase all the necessary supplies. I believe one of your posts tells exactly what to have. I just don't have an orbital tool. Maybe sometime in May will work as the weather starts to improve. In the meantime I'll get the GT40 all tuned up. I greatly appreciate you helping me get started with this project! My next project is having the windshield removed and the frame repainted. Seeking out local body shops who can strip and paint aluminum. I assume they would powder coat it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2013 at 1:14pm
May sounds good. Powder is more specialized and may require a specialized coating place. I use a guy in east Hartford.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2013 at 1:40pm
The reason to use soap is it lubricates and breaks the surface tension of the water allowing a more consistent scratch pattern. The more consistent your scratch pattern the easier it is to sand them out the next round. I like Murphy's Oil soap, probably because it smells good. You only need a little bit (a tablespoon maybe) in a spray bottle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nautique2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-29-2013 at 2:37pm
Tim, maybe we can touch base mid April? I'm working on the windshield project soon. Hopefully it's an easy thing to disassemble!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mcdees84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-23-2020 at 2:32pm
Bumping an old thread. Read through this and know what I want to do to remove some minor oxidation but have a question regarding the decals. I have a DA Dewalt polisher and I’m worried what it might do to the decals while using 3M compound. Will it white them out, rip them off, do nothing to them? Should I just hand apply the compound around the decals?

Thanks! Matt

Edit-no one answered so I made a new post and someone responded. Avoiding the decals with the polisher and will hand polish those areas. Figured I’d share in case someone like me comes along later and needs this answer.
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