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Cutlass, Prop shaft & prop update

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 2:30pm
Are you saying it's "dealer's choice" strut substitute?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by JoeinNY JoeinNY wrote:



The problem is that system doesn't really compensate for much without the feedback loop of an oxygen sensor, and some of the earlier ones were tuned pretty lean to begin with.   The knock sensors are there and I am sure used to dial back some timing but if I was getting crazy with some improvements and not planning to reprogram I might bump up the injector size at least at first until I could get some info out of plug chops or an oxygen sensor. Not a very elegant solution though.


I guess it would have been better to ask how much it can be pushed before it does all go wrong? Did Ford tune it to the edge to get the maximum out of it already? Does 30 over really affect it ? Ford never thought one could be rebuilt? What about better heads? etc, just where is the line?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by Hollywood Hollywood wrote:

Are you saying it's "dealer's choice" strut substitute?


Sure

They didn't buy the Acme prop or ARE shaft from Correct Craft

Who knows where the strut came from?

A 1/2 degree angle difference in his case is good for about a half inch difference in shaft height at the coupling end
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 3:02pm
And/or a sloppy repair and reinstall.

Clearly they don't even know the term alignment. Yikes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phatsat67 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 3:15pm
Alignwhat?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by KENO KENO wrote:

A 1/2 degree angle difference in his case is good for about a half inch difference in shaft height at the coupling end

ken,
Take a look at Joe's pictures again. To me, the misalignment doesn't look much like an up and down issue but rather a port starboard issue. A couple 4' pipe wrenches and a couple cheater pipes could do wonders and even without strut removal. Yes, before you say it, it's defiantly a back yard hack method but it does work!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by gt40KS gt40KS wrote:

I figured on passing this off to the dealer at some point - think I'll go in and have a discussion with the owner/ manager. But honestly I'm not sure if that will help much. This dealer is sort of known in the area for being a bit of a snob. I was actually surprised when the agreed to work on such an old boat as mine. Their normal attitude is "don't bring anything to us older than 10 years and worth less that 50K ,,,"


Get the insurance company involved.   They will send an adjuster to look at the work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 5:04pm
To me it's high and to the driver's side I think it's hitting the shaft log

I guess we'll have to wait for the instant replay review
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hollywood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by 8122pbrainard 8122pbrainard wrote:

it's defiantly a back yard hack method but it does work!!

wowzers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by desertskier desertskier wrote:

Get the insurance company involved.   They will send an adjuster to look at the work.

Excellent idea!!


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Keep it original, Pete

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 9:55pm
Wow, go to work for a while and come back to all of this....

So first, yes Pete is right on the misalignment - it is port/ starboard. It does seem to be just about right top to bottom, however (this is where Ken is correct) it is also hitting the log. And it's not just kinda resting there, it's pushing fairly hard against the side. So, for all I know when I get the alignment straightened out and there isn't pressure on the side, it may very well be off on the height as well. But I will be checking the cutlass again to see if they installed the correct one. And no Pete, I don't believe I'll be using the 4' pipe wrench method LOL

I haven't had a chance to look at it that closely yet, but at a glance I'm not sure the question of whether they used 5200 or not will be an issue. Because at that glance, it appeared they didn't use anything at all. Suffice to say, doing all the rework myself this go-round, I'll know it's done correctly.

Joe, thanks for the input with the engine bumps, I'll likely be picking your brain a bit more in the near future - I just have quite a bit of disassembly to take care of first. Though the conversation between you and Gary has me intrigued because I was thinking many of Gary's same questions.

At this point, I'm not sure if I'm going to get the insurance company involved, as such -
though I may give them a heads up. While I will never take my boat to these guys for repairs or service again, I really don't want to see anyone else get half-baked (trying to be nice here) work like this either.   And when the Insurance company and the dealership are both aware of the debacle, I'll just let the chips fall where they may.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SWANY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 10:08pm
Did it feel like there was resistance in spinning the prop by hand when you picked it up from the dealer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-12-2018 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by SWANY SWANY wrote:

Did it feel like there was resistance in spinning the prop by hand when you picked it up from the dealer?


Honestly, I didn't even give it a whirl that day. I had been working out of town for the last couple months, only back home for a day or two on the weekends, and only had a short amount of time to do what seemed like a thousand things before heading back Sunday night. It was several weeks afterward I even remembered to give it a try, and yes, it did seem like there was some resistance. But that day, just as the day I picked her up, the high for the day was in the single digits, so I chalked it up do just being very cold. Last night I had the garage heat on and it was a balmy 55 in the garage for several hours before I got out there to start my full inspection of their work. Of course, there was still noticeable resistance, which prompted me to continue my disassembly and not wait for the weekend.

Ken, checked a bit ago and took a pic of the new cutlass and according to the model # cast on the side, it is the correct one: S-19

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2018 at 2:25am
They really screwed up your shaft repair. I see no reason to let them keep the large sum they charged to give you such shoddy work.
You should at the very least get all your money back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2018 at 3:54am
Originally posted by MrMcD MrMcD wrote:

They really screwed up your shaft repair. I see no reason to let them keep the large sum they charged to give you such shoddy work.
You should at the very least get all your money back.

My thoughts as well. Getting the insurance company involved would help your case against this shoddy dealer.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KENO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2018 at 8:19am
Well at least you know you have the right strut so you have all the right pieces to do it yourself.

I figure you're ahead of the game money wise cause the parts probably were more than your deductible otherwise you wouldn't have gone through the insurance company to begin with.

So, now you have a bunch of new parts and an alignment job you can handle yourself.and what you do with insurance and the dealer is up to you.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2018 at 9:04am
+1 it's not like Joe took it to a Nautique dealer anyway. I'd let the insurance company know but it sounds as he won't get too far with the dealer. If this is the level of service expected by Mastercraft owners then so be it. I guess you would not take your Mercedes to a Chevy dealer and expect the same experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2018 at 10:11am
Not sure how an insurance company would be involved.
your own policy pays for a covered loss resulting from a covered peril. Mechanical failure and or damage caused by mechanical failure would not be covered.   Poor workmanship also not covered.   

Regarding the shop's general liability policy, they would only cover damage caused by the shops work and or products, it would exclude the work and or parts .   Meaning the misaligned shaft would have to damage something else such as transmission for them to pay anything.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRBenj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2018 at 10:29am
Presumably the dealer and insurance company would be interested in knowing if there was a significant problem with the quality of the work performed and/or a discrepancy between the work that was billed vs the work that was actually completed (I think they call that fraud). Even if no one was requesting additional payouts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2018 at 10:41am
Originally posted by gt40KS gt40KS wrote:

This dealer is sort of known in the area for being a bit of a snob. Their normal attitude is "don't bring anything to us older than 10 years and worth less that 50K ,,,"


Previous post Tim, don't think Joe will get far pointing out dealer incompetence to him
Now if Joe had not checked the work and went and used the boat and it failed he could take the dealer to court. Don't know how far you'd get with a judge if it came out that you took it to a place that did not do authorized work i.e. Chevy dealer working on your Benz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8122pbrainard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2018 at 11:31am
I understand Joe isn't planning on returning to the dealer but I still like the idea of getting the insurance company involved. You may call it revenge but no dealer even a MC dealer should get away with work like that. Yes, Tim makes a valid point regarding fraud and I'm sure the insurance company would love to hear about it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2018 at 12:36pm
The OP stated that this was an insurance claim.   Sometimes the insurance company pays the dealer directly for the work other times the insured party gets a check based on estimates.   If the insurance company worked directly with the dealer then they are on the hook to have the damage repaired correctly.   I had a car repaired after an accident and the shop screwed up a few things.   The insurance company paid another shop to fix the problems on the same claim and I did not have to pay another deductible. Even if they didn't pay directly they still have more leverage than an individual to get the job done correctly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-14-2018 at 8:57am
You are talking about a direct repair facility where the insurance company has a contract with the shop.   Shop uses after market parts etc.   Typically the insurance companies will warrant the work from these shops.    Going to find this more common practice with automotive repairs than marine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrMcD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-15-2018 at 1:35am
If the shop took your money and agreed for that amount to repair this boat they failed.
Any court would insist you give them an opportunity to repair your boat before they would consider giving you back your money normally.
In this case you have a strong case to claim they wer either negligent or not competent and did not complete the job they charged you for.
Give the better business bureau a call and get advise how
To proceed.
Any good shop would bend over backwards to rectify your situation.
Maybe they were busy and a rookie did your work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SNobsessed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-15-2018 at 8:06am
Or you could just fix it yourself & do a really accurate job.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote desertskier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-15-2018 at 9:38am
Originally posted by shierh shierh wrote:

You are talking about a direct repair facility where the insurance company has a contract with the shop.   Shop uses after market parts etc.   Typically the insurance companies will warrant the work from these shops.    Going to find this more common practice with automotive repairs than marine.


Some insurance companies will pay "non-preferred" shops directly.   I had similar damage to my boat.   The CC dealer told me that he did not like dealing with some insurance companies (specifically Progressive) because they took too long to pay and he would end up having to hold the boat after the repairs were complete.   I had BOAT US and they cut me a check for the amount of his estimate minus deductible and I paid him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shierh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-15-2018 at 11:33am
paying a shop directly and having a contract with them are 2 different things.     Shop would have you sign a direction to pay allowing the insurance carrier to pay them and leave you off of the check.   Doesn't make insurance company liable for defective work.

I do have expertise in this field, been a commercial liability adjuster for 25 years and paid out about 20000 claims.   Don't do much first party stuff but it is essentially the same.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gt40KS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2018 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by shierh shierh wrote:

    ... Shop would have you sign a direction to pay allowing the insurance carrier to pay them and leave you off of the check.   Doesn't make insurance company liable for defective work ...


This would be the case with my situation and that's why I decided to give the insurance company a heads up, but don't expect anything to change on my end. I figure perhaps it may help someone else down the line who may be looking to have these "professionals" work on their boat.

I never intended to have a shop do this type of work on my boat to begin with. The reason I went this direction in this case was ONLY because it was an insurance claim and they would have been more than skeptical about letting me do all the work on my own boat and footing the bill for the repairs - it was mandatory to have an actual repair shop do the work. And knowing the shops preceding reputation about the age and valuation of it's prospective clients crafts, I fully expected the boat to need some fine tuning when I got her back.   I just really didn't think it was going to have to be a total and complete redo !!
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